Stand up
Who are you? It has been said men shouldn't discuss three things, politics, religion and their wives. In discussing these things men become enemies. I agree that if alcohol is involved and either party is intoxicated, then yes, this rule should be followed. But otherwise we should engage (except for wives). I am writing this because I often try to discuss the subject of abortion and notice people often shy away from my rather strong view that it should be illegal. If you are against abortion, let people know. If you are pro choice then don't be afraid to defend it. Put your fist on the table and demand that people know why they should be allowed to kill. Don't hide under the guise of choice. Pro choicers should have the burden of proving this is not murder. It shouldn't be pro- lifers having the burden of proving it is murder. That's easy, if you stops someone's heart from beating its murder.
Who are you? What do you stand for? If you want to say I stand for freedom, and a woman's right to choose, that's OK. Why cant this extend to her 3 month old baby? Why would you remove the woman's right to end the life of her 3 month old baby. That is what its all about right, freedom, right to choose.
Here is Websters definition of murder :The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
Baby's that are not born yet are still classified as human. As well as an abortion is done with premeditated malice, isn't it? So by definition, abortion is murder. Unless you can say that an unborn baby is not alive yet. Do you pro-choicers believe that? A infant living in her moms uterus is thinking, dreaming, moving, breathing embryonic fluid, even going the bathroom, but is not yet alive? The few people I meet that will defend abortion say things like "its more complicated than that" or "what if a person was raped".
I will admit there can be issues where it can be complicated, Missing chromosomes and you know the fetus will die and other special instances. But abortion of a healthy baby is by definition murder. What do you want to stand for? Freedom to murder for all woman? Put your fist on the table and explain why. Stand up for what you believe. Don't look the other way. People think that this issue is coming back to the news and politics because right wing wacko's are somehow super powerful and can achieve unjust things. I believe that it is because the 30 or so years since abortion had been legal is enough time for all the woman who have had abortions to age and become wiser, and now look back with regret. I don't believe in people standing outside an abortion clinic and yelling murderer at the poor girl walking out after she had an abortion, because she will feel regret for her own decision for the rest of her life. But I think if there aren't any abortion clinics in the first place we will reduce the number of woman getting abortions. And even if it doesn't, laws should reflect what is wrong or right. Laws against heroine don't seem to limit its use, but making it legal is not the correct answer. Stand up! Explain why you are correct in what you believe. Make an argument for your case and lets have dialog. Perhaps you haven't even reasoned the whole thing out yet so your not sure? Then do it! Stand for something!
Who are you? What do you stand for? If you want to say I stand for freedom, and a woman's right to choose, that's OK. Why cant this extend to her 3 month old baby? Why would you remove the woman's right to end the life of her 3 month old baby. That is what its all about right, freedom, right to choose.
Here is Websters definition of murder :The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
Baby's that are not born yet are still classified as human. As well as an abortion is done with premeditated malice, isn't it? So by definition, abortion is murder. Unless you can say that an unborn baby is not alive yet. Do you pro-choicers believe that? A infant living in her moms uterus is thinking, dreaming, moving, breathing embryonic fluid, even going the bathroom, but is not yet alive? The few people I meet that will defend abortion say things like "its more complicated than that" or "what if a person was raped".
I will admit there can be issues where it can be complicated, Missing chromosomes and you know the fetus will die and other special instances. But abortion of a healthy baby is by definition murder. What do you want to stand for? Freedom to murder for all woman? Put your fist on the table and explain why. Stand up for what you believe. Don't look the other way. People think that this issue is coming back to the news and politics because right wing wacko's are somehow super powerful and can achieve unjust things. I believe that it is because the 30 or so years since abortion had been legal is enough time for all the woman who have had abortions to age and become wiser, and now look back with regret. I don't believe in people standing outside an abortion clinic and yelling murderer at the poor girl walking out after she had an abortion, because she will feel regret for her own decision for the rest of her life. But I think if there aren't any abortion clinics in the first place we will reduce the number of woman getting abortions. And even if it doesn't, laws should reflect what is wrong or right. Laws against heroine don't seem to limit its use, but making it legal is not the correct answer. Stand up! Explain why you are correct in what you believe. Make an argument for your case and lets have dialog. Perhaps you haven't even reasoned the whole thing out yet so your not sure? Then do it! Stand for something!
posted by Jim Fisher at 8:02 AM
5 Comments:
Good point, but you're not going to get any well reasoned response. Dr. James White has been challenging prochoice philosophers to moderated public debate for...uuuuuhhhh...ever it seems. They are simply not willing for public debate. They know their position can not stand any cross examination what-so-ever.
I have debated the issue with some really intelligent people when I lived in NH. Their arguments were always easily destroyed with just the slightest thought.
One person figured out what I was doing and tried to force me into his worldveiew by redefining the term person. Several prolifers have answered their objections using their own inconsistent viewpoint.
I prefer to not allow them to define the debate and force them into arguments where they will have to say, "You are arguing your religion and forcing your religious views on me!"
When they say that, I have got them beat. If they don't, I simply pick apart their assumptions, since they are not able to account for them even in their system.
These were men that I was debating though, and that is fine as that goes. In the end, we need to be persuasive in our well reasoned responses. As a Christian Prolifer, I am trying to glorify God and defend those who can not defend themselves, and persuade everyone I know to look to God's laws for direction.
God Bless
I understand your point. And you are correct in overall concept. But living in the north east I am not going to convert anyone to Christianity, and I am really not interested in doing so (unless someone wants it). To me, abortion doesn't make sense no matter what world view you use.
Just to clarify, I was not refering to converting people to Christianity. I was refering to persuading people to the prolife position.
"To me, abortion doesn't make sense no matter what world view you use."
If there is no Creator, it is self evident that these truths are not true nor self evident. Therfore, killing your young like some animal would be justifyable.
My Point is that even in a naturalistic world view, they feel that murder is wrong, but abortion is ok somehow. Its a contradiction in its own world view. So it doesn't really matter much which way you argue it. Unless they want to say that murder is OK, which is a line I don't feel they will even cross. In order for abortion to be OK in a naturalistic world view there needs to be something that differenciates a 6 month fetus from a new born baby. I want to know what that is? You and I know there is no difference. But somehow they are claiming there is. So.... out with it! Whats the difference?
"So.... out with it! Whats the difference?"
Exactly! When you get an answer, let me know.
"My Point is that even in a naturalistic world view, they feel that murder is wrong, but abortion is ok somehow. Its a contradiction in its own world view."
This is exactly my point. You wanted an example earlier. Their worldview is not able to account for this blatant problem.
The reason is simple. The Christian worldview is the only worldview that can account for this. ALL men are made in the image of God. It is this image and knowledge of God they are surpressing. Therefore, you must call them to repentance and bring them to an epistemology that starts with God's revelation.
If you do not, then they will simply use the naturalistic worldview to say murder is bad for the evolution of society and that the killing of unborn children is just a form of natural selection.
Even though we both know that is a lie, without calling men to repentance, there is simply no way other than appealing to the common ground of morality. Then you start over again with presuppositions because morality demands a Creator. without the Creator, there is no morality.
It may be argued that Christians argue in a circle because they start with the bible for their source of knowledge. My argument in return is that men do exactly the same thing, but instead start with themselves. And for every man, there is a different theory of knowledge.
As C.S. Lewis (I think) said, "men have their feet firmly planted in mid air."
God Bless
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