Deep Thoughts
Did God feel Pain when Jesus was nailed to the cross? When I watch the "Passion of the Christ" I have to wonder about it. "The Passion" was a great movie. The only part I don't like about it is how badly Jesus was beaten. Not because of the violence, but for two reasons. One is that if Ponchus Pilot gave an order to Roman solders to beat someone, they would of followed his orders to a T. I don't think they would go to far beating someone to death if they knew they would have to answer to the highest local Roman authority. The other reason I don't like the extent of the beating is because it seems to negate the impact of dying on the cross. In this movie the dying on the cross was just adding insult to injury (literally). It appeared that Jesus was already dead (given a day or two) weather they crucified him or not. I always believed the actual crucifixion was what actually killed Jesus.
So back to the original question, did God feel pain when Jesus was crucified? I think I would have to say yes. Could this be making it a sacrifice for us, not just from Jesus, but from God? I suppose an argument could be made that God, being all powerful, could accomplish sacrificing his son without feeling pain. Or could he? Is there somehow some laws that even God must comply. Or perhaps he doesn't have to, but he makes himself comply to give some type of order to the universe and purpose to things even for him. You could go in circles trying to answer this. Perhaps when he made Abraham almost kill his own son, he was making him understand what he was going to go through.
Imagine some murderer taking your son out into the woods and nailing him to a tree and torturing him while he died. Is this how God felt? Perhaps we shouldn't discuss Gods feelings as if somehow we can understand, but it sure does add something else to someone dying for the sins of the world (as if that isn't enough). That man has a mother and a father, and a FATHER.
So back to the original question, did God feel pain when Jesus was crucified? I think I would have to say yes. Could this be making it a sacrifice for us, not just from Jesus, but from God? I suppose an argument could be made that God, being all powerful, could accomplish sacrificing his son without feeling pain. Or could he? Is there somehow some laws that even God must comply. Or perhaps he doesn't have to, but he makes himself comply to give some type of order to the universe and purpose to things even for him. You could go in circles trying to answer this. Perhaps when he made Abraham almost kill his own son, he was making him understand what he was going to go through.
Imagine some murderer taking your son out into the woods and nailing him to a tree and torturing him while he died. Is this how God felt? Perhaps we shouldn't discuss Gods feelings as if somehow we can understand, but it sure does add something else to someone dying for the sins of the world (as if that isn't enough). That man has a mother and a father, and a FATHER.
posted by Jim Fisher at 5:51 AM
10 Comments:
I truly believe that God felt that pain...and oh! what pain it was! I'm so thankful for His sacrafice.
I very much agree that the movie far over does the beating of Christ. I am not sure if Gibson was trying to be historical or not. Perhaps he was trying to convey the suffering of Christ in an overly done way?
I talked to some people about that aspect of the movie and the Roman soldiers were trained to beat a man within literally an inch of his life. So it might be possible that the movie is not that far off.
The problem is that the Bible never describes it. It simply says, "He was crucified."
As for God making laws He must comply with, there simply is no law above God. He cannot swear by any higher Name than Himself. Therefore if God chooses to enter into a Covenant with His chosen people, that is His choice to do so.
Since He has chosen to do so, He does keep it perfectly. God cannot violate His own promises.
This truth separates us from the Muslims. Allah does not have to keep any promise or law since he above all of those things.
When I get home, I'd like to share some passages on the emotions of God. I don't think we should approach the crucifixion emotionally as a human, but keep in mind the intentions of God and how He deals with sinners.
God Bless
I personally don't think that Mel Gibson over-exaggerated the beating of Christ. He was beaten until He was almost dead...and I think it was portrayed very acurately.
Kendra,
How do we know he was beaten until he was almost dead? Reguardless, As i'm watching the movie, I am thinking to myself, there is no way this guy lives. There was no anti-biotics in those times. You can't tear half of a mans skin off his body without him dying of infection.
A person can be beaten just as violently without killing him. You just can't go ripping his flesh off with a cat and nine tails. I think Mel could have gotten the same affect without using the cat and nine tails, which in my opinion, would have done him in just from infection alone.
Howie,
Why do you say would should not approach the crucifixion emotionally? How do you know its not important to God that we do? As Kendra says she believes his pain is part of his sacrafice for us. without any pain is it really a sacrafice. His pain is really kinda important, isn't it?
"Why do you say would should not approach the crucifixion emotionally? How do you know its not important to God that we do? As Kendra says she believes his pain is part of his sacrafice for us. without any pain is it really a sacrafice. His pain is really kinda important, isn't it?"
God's pain COULD be part of the sacrifice, but the question is, "Is it?"
What is the purpose of the sacrifice? What are God's emotions in the Son as the Son gives Himself freely to the Father as the propitiation of sins?
The Father delights in the Son and His work, for their work is one and the same (read John5).
Jesus' sacrifice would have been (in human words) a sweet smelling aroma.
As for God's emotions against those who murdered His Son, He would most certainly been full of godly vengence and wrath.
I am not saying God is not emotional. I am not saying there is no real emotional interaction within the Godhead or God with men.
I am simply saying we must not make God a mere man with mere raw human emotions. If I were to sacrifice my son, that would be vastly different the God sacrificing His Son.
If Kendra wants to make emotions part of the sacrifice, she would need to make a Biblical case for doing so. Jesus' sacrifice expiates the wrath of God against sin. (Not in a mere human fashion either.)
"I truly believe that God felt that pain...and oh! what pain it was! I'm so thankful for His sacrafice."
If I remember correctly, Kendra's church is oneness, meaning they do not believe in the Trinity. So the above statement would mean something vastly different between a oneness person and a Trinitarian.
If Kendra is Oneness, then you do not have the emotions of a personal Father for another person, who is the eternal Son.
To be honest, I do not know what the above statement would mean at all in Oneness theology, except for that God was emotional with Himself as a Single Person within the Godhead. (ie: god was emotional in the sacrifice of Himself????)
This is not to speak anything Kendra personally. I do not know her.
"Isa 53:10 But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors. "
God is pleased with the work of the Son.
"Eph 5:2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma."
God does hate the wicked, not Christ.
"Psa 11:5 The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates."
We must keep in mind there are too numerous of verses that could be considered. It is the wicked that God is said to be sorry that he even made man. Of course this is simply mocking man and his sinfulness.
God is patient and longsuffering with both the wicked and those to whom He grants repentance.
I think the emotions that Jesus expresses would be far better than simply looking for an emotional atonement. In other words, the emotions Jesus expresses is a passionate love for the Elect. He came to save them. He shed His blood for them. This is pure (holy) emotion stemming forth from the love of God. He has compassion for His people.
So yes, Jesus would have been in anguish in His soul. Yet, it would be an anguish of suffering for His people. This is something He longed to do out of perfect love for His Father in perfect obedience.
The religious leaders on the other hand are told to us to be objects of God's wrath. They are condemned for their actions and evil intentions.
Did Jesus hurt? well we must Understand that the our Master & Lord loved Jesus and would never have given pain to Jesus, for example we have to think that how much does a parent love a child, and there is no way a parent would givepain to his child and the parent would do every thing in his/her power to avoid the pain been given, then we have to be undertand the lord beening so powerful can change as When Punchus piolt asked Jesus if he was king of the jews , Jesus reply was "you say" meaning that Punchus piolt is saying he is the king of Jews and Jesus has not said this, When Punchus piolt asked Jesus if he was the son of god Jesus reply was "you say" meaning that Punchus piolt is saying he is the son of god and not Jesus. I
Yes God felt pain for Jesus as he does when we all turn our back from him get hurt etc, the same way you do if your child is hurting in any manner. Also the beating of Christ was not over done it was in fact under done so to speak. If you do a little research into the matter, i.e. extended explanations of the bible that still follow the word of God then you will know that Jesus was beaten so badly he was un-recognizable as a man. The beating took chunks of flesh from him and to hang on the cross is a slow agonizing death in which the person slowly suffocates. So no the Passion of Christ was not over done. And remember when you watch it that Jesus was as much a man as you and I meaning he felt pain as we do and he was as scared as anyone would have been, but he did that all because he loved us and wanted us to know exactly how much. The bible states the Jesus was so scared he begged God to not let this happen when he prayed in the garden alone at the open of the movie, what it doesn’t show is that he actually was sweating blood he was so scared. After Jesus died on the cross they took his body because if it hung for longer than a day it meant the person was cursed by God. When Jesus was wrapped up and placed in the tomb it wasn't in a light cloth it was in heavy myrrh which is sticky like glue then yards of cloth so it was so tight it was impossible to cut through teaching state that Jesus was wrapped in over 100lbs of cloth and myrrh and covering the entrance was a 2 ton rock. On the third day the rock was thrown aside which means it was thrown 10-20 yards from the entrance and the cloth was still wrapped tight as if a body was in it but the body of Christ was gone. The napkin cloth they placed on his head was folded next to the cocoon, which symbolized in those days that the person whom the napkin belonged to was not yet done and will be back. That is how it happened and standing guard outside the tomb was 15 Roman guards and if a Roman guard so much as leaned when on duty they could kill him so no one quietly moved a 2-ton rock and then the body it was supernatural. I hoped this helped people there is so much more to be said but that gives you a good idea of what took place in the three days from death to rising from the dead. Also even today ALL people are buried facing East because God said he will return from the East and the bodies will rise out of the ground first then the people.
It's "would HAVE" ... not "would OF"
That is 3rd grade English!
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